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The rest of the week was a whirlwind and then Thursday was here. After all the normal drama that leads up to preparing for a quick trip, we were finally on our way. CCRM or bust. After checking in to our hotel, M and I met up with Polly for a late dinner. Yes, she is as smart and wonderful and kind and beautiful as her blog depicts. This was truly a highlight of my trip.
Friday was all about CCRM. It is an incredible place that reminds me of an upscale hotel lobby with dark woods, granite counters, and a great little glass water feature. It was a bit surreal to be there, looking out the windows to a beautiful view of the mountains. Truly a great place to be. The operations and staff were like a well oiled machine. Everyone knows their role and they did a great job keeping us moving to each "appointment" and explaining how everything worked. Here is what our day looked like:
9:30-10:30: Consultation #1 with our primary nurse. She went through all the ins and outs of how things work at CCRM and then went through what testing Dr. Schoolcraft wanted us to have and what things we needed to do once we got back home.
10:30-11:00: M went off to "do his thing". This is the 4th place he has had to give a sample and it always amazes him as to the number of dvds that are missing from their cases. Ewwww.
11:00-11:30: Baseline u/s and Doppler bloodflow. I actually ended up going early for this so M missed out completely. The baseline u/s was the standard "assume the stirrup position" to have the uterus and ovaries measured as well as an antral follicle count. (I completely appreciated that they had a monitor hung on the wall and angled toward the stirrups so I could follow the play by play of my inner workings without twisting my neck.) AFC was 14. She told me that average is 12-14 for my age. Being in an "average" range for anything IF related thrills me to bits. The Doppler was really pretty cool. There were blue and red blotches on the u/s screen helping her to locate veins and arteries. Whenever she touched one of these, I could hear the sound of my beating heart picked up by the machine. She explained that she was checking to make sure that the blood wasn't moving away from the uterus/ovaries too quickly. After some pretty charts that correlated to my bloodflow popped up on the screen, she made some measurements and said that all was fine. They like to see values under 3 and mine were 2.3 on the left and 2.7 on the right. Bottom line, this means I don't need acupuncture.
11:30-11:45: Hysteroscopy time (camera and gas inside uterus to check for polyps, scar tissue, etc.) New room, same old position. I am still a bit entertained that this was the position I was in when I met Dr. Schoolcraft for the first time. He came in, washed his hands, put on gloves, and went right to work. Even though he didn't yet know the color of my eyes, he said my uterus looked beautiful. LOL.
11:45-12:15: Hang out with M in conference room and wait for Schoolcraft.
12:15-12:30: Regroup with Dr. Schoolcraft. We talked about our previous cycles and our issues most likely being my eggs and endometriosis, but that we shouldn't yet rule out a sperm problem. Not likely, but he wants to make sure that eggs really are the only big culprit for us.
Then came the stare down. The DE speech. The "This is really your best chance for a pregnancy" talk. The "I'm gonna give it to you straight and feel you out." spiel. He didn't fumble with papers or look away once. He said he gives us a 20-30% chance with my eggs (more on this later) and 80% with donor. I didn't even look at M (I was in a staredown after all). "We want to try with my eggs......Now, you suggested that we do an APA screening. What do you think about testing for natural killer cells too?" And just like that we moved on to discuss NK cells, taking DHEA, and better understanding CGH.
Overview: 1) no on NK cells. 2) Yes, he recommends taking 75mg of DHEA daily. He said the studies he has seen are only preliminary, but that some women with elevated FSH/DOR who have taken this 2 months before a cycle have seen higher egg quality in their cycles. He said it is no sure thing, but the initial reports have been promising. 3) Because we have transferred everything that has survived for each of our other IVF cycles, he didn't seem optimistic about CGH really being an option for us - read we probably won't have anything to test anyway. We have only had one 8-cell embryo on day 3 for each of our cycles and neither were stellar quality. He said we could be highly surprised and that if we did get more that looked good on day 3, we could still consider it. He said if we wanted to test them "just to know" if all our embryos are bad to help us move on emotionally, then he would recommend it, but otherwise he would recommend just transferring the best of what we get.
We did discuss protocols a bit, but this is pending the results of my blood test results. He is thinking microdose Lupron flare with the addition of a growth hormone. The growth hormone would be to help the ovaries respond better to the FSH medications, but he said it is sometimes tricky to get because body builders abuse it too much. "Just give me the 'script, doc. Downtown L.A. has to have a shady pharmacy somewhere that can help a girl out."
And then our time was over. He did ask some questions in the hall about where we work and how 2 engineers meet. He did his residency and infertility training at UCLA and wanted to know what it was like to move from Nebraska to L.A. It was nice to see a little of his personal side. Before we left I told him that if he can't get me pregnant, then it will probably never happen. He just smirked and said that their lab is really good.
12:30-1:30: M and I leave to go for lunch. M is not a happy camper at this point. When we did the phone consult, Dr. Schoolcraft gave us a 40% chance. Now that we were in Denver, it was 20-30%. I guess I was focused on other things to really let this absorb and ask why. I can only speculate that it really is just a crapshoot. He didn't kick us out of his office so to me there is still a shot. M is not as convinced right now and doesn't understand why we are dumping boatloads of money for a 20% chance. Long, quiet, unhappy lunch.
1:30-2:30: Consultation #2 with our primary nurse. We talked to her about our "new" odds despite the fact that only new information was positive (AFC, bloodflow u/s, and hysteroscopy). She chatted a bit about it and then moved us on to keeping "positive thoughts". We went through the injection instructions and cycling timelines. BTDT, could teach the class.
2:30-3: Vampire time. 9 vials of blood for me and 4 for M.
3:00-3:10: Business office meeting. IVF is very expensive and here are the cost breakdowns........ BTDT take 2.
3:10-3:30: Consent review meeting. This is where we decide things like who gets our embryos if we divorce or one of us dies. We thought about it hard the first go round. Frozen embryos are now a foreign concept to us. I think our conversation was along these lines, "Who got 'em last time?" "Okay, I'll take 'em again." Record time on all these forms we were told. BTDT take 3.
That was the end of our day at CCRM. I need to go there to cycle before I can move on with any other route. This is my "end of the ART treatment road" grand finale. Schoolcraft could give us 5% and I would still go to him for this last shot just so I know that we went out fighting. M, on the other hand, is not taking the drop from 40% to 20% very well and needs answers before he wants to continue moving forward. He is pretty pissed to say the least. Not being on the same page is usually not one of our bigger issues. I will work to get the answers and hope that he is okay with it.
It could be a little bumpy for awhile, but we are still moving forward. Now we wait for CCRM blood test results, appointments for other tests to be done locally, and for M to be okay with all of this. Nobody said this was going to be easy.
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**As a side note, I just have to say how much I loved meeting up with Polly in between our appointments at CCRM. The feel of RE waiting rooms is usually so doom and gloom where nobody talks. It was so nice to pass through and give hugs and updates before one of us was called back again. Thanks so much Polly for keeping my head in check through all of this. You truly are amazing. I will be thinking good thoughts for you on Monday.**
30 comments:
Brenda - I am really sorry about what happened to your coworker. That's just terrible and so sad.
That's nice that you were there for her.
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I am so happy that you posted tonight and that everything went well. I know M is disappointed with the drop down to 20% - I think that's completely understandable. Emotionally, financially, physically...it's so much to go through. I do, however, understand your need for wanting to go forward with the cycle. I get the whole needing to know that you've done everything you can before moving on. (We felt that way, too.)
It's great that you got to meet Polly. I wish I was there to have met both of you! What a great thing -- to have such support right there IRL!
Trying DHEA and the growth hormone treatment sounds promising. I hope that helps!
Anyway, I'm just so happy for you that you had the chance to go out to CCRM and see how they can help. Keep us posted on how everything is going! ((hugs!))
Interesting comment on the DHEA. Hmmmm....
I wonder why Sch. dropped his rate to 20% for you? Your numbers really don't sound *that* bad. Seriously!
We went into the #3 hail-mary-cycle for closure only... that's why we did the CGH. None of our embies ever lived past day 4, so there were no guarantees. But you know what? Their lab is beyond awesome. And really, if they can't grow 'em out to day 5, then I don't know if they'd do anything in you, either... so why prolong the tww?
My 1day results were much worse than yours. I thought it was the nail in the coffin. I had my closure. It was only after the regroup w/ Dr surrey after the CCCT test that DH decided we needed to cycle... then Dr Surrey said we had to NOW. Ugh.
I was *not* thrilled.
Sorry for the saga. *hugs* to you. Hang in there.
I am pulling for you and praying for you!
You amaze me and I can only hopea nd pray that this works for you...You deserve it.
Ps...When are we gonna get coffee?
Brenda ... thank you for such sweet words. It was so wonderful meeting you and M. Being alone at CCRM is not ideal, and you and M made me feel welcomed and loved.
I'm glad we got a chance to talk today ... I so want to support each other as we go through our hail mary, out of state cycles.
Watch out Schooly ... we're ganna crack you!
My deepest, sincerest condolences to R. Her heart must be breaking right now and, as her friend, I know your heart breaks for her. I will keep you both in my prayers.
Your CCRM visit sounds very promising to me! Odds are just something doctors spew. At the end of the day what matters is whether or not it works. That money thing is a beotch, though. I hear you on that one. I think I'm going to pay for my next cycle during this calendar year (aiming for Jan 09 at this point). I need the tax break and combining my June cycle and another cycle on the same tax return will give me the biggest benefit, I think.
I do feel very optimistic after reading about your visit, though. Very much so!
I'm so sorry to hear about your office mate!
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Check on the growth hormone. I used Saizen, and didn't have a problem getting a prescription filled. The stuff was damn expensive though, $500 bucks a pop, and I had to buy two.
DHEA is really an individual thing. I know REs recommend this with random dosages with abandon, but it really needs to be monitored. I suggest you have your local doctor test you before you start taking it and two to four weeks after you start taking it. They should test your DHEA levels AND your testosterone. Even at my age of 40 plus, I only needed 5 mg a day. The stuff made my testosterone go high, and I know other women who have had the same issues. Other women don't. Like I said, it's very individual, and it needs to be monitored, but the REs never do that. They are just going off published information.
The microdose flare protocol didn't work for me, but that's what they usually start with on women with AMA and/or poor response. I found that the microdose lupron suppressed me too much. Again, this is an individual thing. Unfortunately, the only way to know if it works for you or not is to try it.
I think acupuncture and Chinese herbs can really help with egg quality. No, there is no definitive studies on this that I know of, but I think it helped me.
I got the whole DE speech too. I'm not surprised that you did. The question is, how far are you willing to go with doing everything you need to do to improve your egg quality? You can not rely on REs to give you all this info. I really recommend reading "The Infertility Cure" by Randine Lewis and egg quality, if you haven't already done so. I do believe that you can improve your egg quality. I'm convinced that someday, research will prove this, but we are not there yet.
That's cool about meeting up with Polly. I always think it's weird how no one talks to each other in the waiting rooms of these fertility clinics, but you never know what someone else's story is. I hope to be able to meet up with you next time you are here!
I'm pulling for you B. I truly hope that CCRM is the answer for you.
I'm praying for your coworker. BTDT and it is one of the most traumatic things I ever went through.
B --
I'm sorry you got a little "bait and switch" at CCRM. Still, 20-30% is better no chance chance!
I can understand why M is losing hope. We've had several "long, quiet, unhappy" lunches lately. My husband, C, is in the same boat. C has been "going through the motions" to chase our dream. Now that the dream seems so out of reach, he is starting to get angry. And like you said, disagreement has never been a problem in our relationship. We've always been a unified team... until now. I've noticed such a marked difference in his attitude, and I can't blame him. Our husbands are realists, while you and I are idealists. We have to be. It's all we have.
I'm sorry to hear about your co-worker... that's so sad. HOWEVER, it must have felt good to have someone FINALLY validate what your life is like... I think all fertiles are more sensitive to us after they've had a taste of how the other half lives.
Love you,
E
I am so sorry about R's loss. What a horrible change of events. She's lucky to have a compassionate friend like you. I will keep R and her family in my thoughts.
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I completely understand about needing to feel like you've done all you can before you can start to let go. My last RE called it a closure cycle. Of course, I hope that the closure your CCRM cycle brings is a healthy baby. Someone is on the happy side of the odds. Why not you? It certainly sounds like you're in good hands there.
Wishing you all the very best on this journey!!
It's always so unfortunate to hear about pregnancy loss - I'm glad that you could be there for her.
I completely understand going for the do-or-die cycle at CCRM - even with lowered odds it's more about the emotional sense of having done all you possibly can. As they say, SOMEBODY has to be that 20%. I have always wondered about the DHEA - maybe that is the magic ingredient? I truly hope this is it for you!
My heart breaks for your coworker. There really aren't any words.
I can definitely understand why M may be disappointed with the new odds you've been given. And I understand how you really need to do this last cycle. The both of you have already been through so much on many levels. Definitely sending good vibes your way. You are so in my thoughts.
I am sorry about your coworker. That is just horrible.
I understand completely why you went to CCRM and why no matter what you will try IVF one more time with them (pending M. of course). It is a way of making sure you've done all you can before you close the door. I think we all need to have a place where we decide that enough is enough. But we can't get there until we've tried "everything." CCRM is your everything. And I hope and pray that it will bring you 100% positive results.
Is the human growth hormone Saizen? I'm taking that right now, too. And up until now I thought maybe my RE was full of shit, but if its what you're taking and now I read that Phoebe is taking it (I'm off to read her blog now) then maybe Saizen really will help.
I'm so glad you're doing this.
Sorry, about your coworker.
Sorry your coworker is going through this. That is so hard.
I am glad you are going through with this IVF. Sorry they didn't give you better odds. It is really a lot to go through. You and M have made it this far through the strength you pull from each other.
Oh, poor R. How nice of you to comfort her, but I wish there was someone to comfort you more often.
It seems to take some talking-into to get boys on board with our plans. HA! I think, in the back of your mind, if you don't try CCRM, that you will always wonder "what if." That alone should be reason enough to continue moving forward, although I know I'm not the one helping support this endeavor financially. Maybe telling M how much this means to you will help him have a change of mind and heart. Good luck!
I'm so sorry about R. *sigh* Having to hear no heartbeat is really just one of the scariest things one goes through. But I know you; you're just this sweet, caring friend who will put away your pain to comfort others first. That's just who you are.
Somehow I think we're on complete opposites. I've always been the negative person here and babes has always been the one pushing us on. And I think it's good that one person in the relationship remains optimistic. I totally understand the need to really do what you can do, know what you have done is really the best that you can do... Honestly, even though I've always been the pessimistic one, I know that somehow I'd wanna give it my best shot too. If you don't do it, then, u'd always wonder, IF ONLY I HAD DONE THIS? MAYBE IF? WHAT IF?
Both of you have been through so much already. I hope that CCRM and Dr Crafty does the magic for you guys! And if he doesn't, just know that I'm here for you. But I'm praying real hard that he does his BFP craft on you guys.
ps Can I ask why did he say no to NKC testing? I remember doing a NKC testing here in Melbourne.
pps I'm glad you met Polly. She's something, eh?
ppps And I'm glad that I have you as my bloggy friend. Thank you for lifting my spirits up..you do that always.
My sincerest condolences to your coworker & her DH. Continue to be there for her.
I must say that after reading Polly's post, and not seeing you post I dejectedly thought OMG this will probably not be good, that's why she hasn't said anything. So based on that premise...this might sound strange but I'm actually a bit relieved at your results so far.
The 20-30% odds, though a disappointing drop from the afore-mentioned 40%...the chance still exist of it working. Even fertile couples have roughly a 20% chance of conceiving each month--though it might seem higher.
Hope the wheatgrass shots help as well as the DHEA and g.h.
Great to know you have a beautiful uterus (I'm serious), so just praying and hoping you'll be able to get your egg quality up.
As always you provide such great descriptive summary. One could totally visualize & feel a part of the whole experience.
Sending tons of good wishes your way.
All the best,
Anna
Brenda - I am so sorry for your friend. This is not a journey I would wish on anyone. She is lucky to have you.
I think CCRM sounded like a good trip. I can understand M's perspective, but, I would be reacting just like you are. 20% is better than nothing - and he is the best (Schoolcraft). I know yall will figure out what is best for you. But, I am like you - leave no stone unturned before moving on.
Thanks for posting - I've been hoping to hear from you.
Thanks for keeping us updated! The one day sounds like it went well. I'm glad you held your own during the staredown! And I'm glad you are allowed to go ahead with your own eggs! YAY! Don't worry about the low percentage at this stage. He might give you a higher percentage once all your test results come back, and your day 3's. you never know! You can ask again in your regroup after you have all the tests back.
Hang onto hope! This is going to be the one for all of us. I can feel it!!
I'm glad that you are taking one more step towards another cycle and you really are encouraging me. I'm abit apprehensive about another FET for myself. But if you can fly to LA to take that chance. I don't see why I should be so scare.
Hey, don't be discouraged in any way. Remember that you wanted to give another shot and the best shot. You are here now and I want you to remember that why you are here for and you should not be defeated by any percentage of chances. Think positive and that's what a friend who conceived on the 7th tries of IVF told me, "You just be to be calm and tell yourself you are in the hands of the capable doctor. You mustn't take anything too hard."
I have a good feeling for you this time. You must keep your hopes up. I will be praying hard for you.
So sorry to hear about your co-worker. I am keeping her in my thoughts.
Sounds like the appointment went well at CCRM. I like that you stood your ground about donor eggs.
So sorry to hear about your co-worker.
I hope that you get some answers that will help M get on the CCRM boat.
I really hope that this works for you.
((HUGS))
My thoughts for your DH: Does it really matter? Isn't this the last hurrah - would you not have wanted to take this chance regardless of if the odds are 20% or 40%? Really?
Wow - what a long day that must have been for you guys. That would feel like you were running a marathon I would imagine. Did the hysteroscopy hurt? I'm glad that they seem really thourough, and I hope that you and your husband decide on something that works well for you both. I'll keep your co worker in my thoughts and prayers...and as always you are in mine! ((hugs))
Hi Brenda,
I am sick about your co-worker's loss - I hope neither of you have to face anything like that again.
It's so interesting to hear about your day at CCRM -- esp the DHEA and meeting up with Polly. Wow. You are so brave to move forward with what you know you need to do. I pray you and M find yourselves on the winning side of the odds, whatever they are!
Hey B..Just saw your comment on my blog. Just wanted to give you a warm hug cuz I am tearing a bit too as I think back to what I witnessed with my own eyes.
((((((BIG BIG HUGS)))))))
Love you.
xoxooxo
Sadly, I have some idea of what your office mate is going through, and she is lucky to have your kind and caring support.
As for the results from CCRM, you have an amazing opportunity to cycle with the best. I hope M feels your optimism soon and that things are easy peasy from here on out.
{{Hugs}}
Kimberli's blog had a link for you, but it was like three or four posts earlier... so I've read bits and pieces.
I just really hope this is it for you!
We had three IUI's, two IVF's with poor response that were converted into failed IUI's, and then a chemical pregnancy. So I am right there with you in that this whole thing is just shitty to go through! I also want to know that we've exhausted every resource and have given it our all.
Sending you some hope.
wow - not easy indeed. I'm really glad for you that you're doing this - if he's the best, this way you'll really know. And that has to be good.
I'm so sorry to hear about R. It's a horrible feeling, when you're thinking 'you don't know what I'm going through!' and then suddenly - they do - and you wish they didn't.
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